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Sage
Picture of bobby
Location: Problemstown
Registered: 03-18-01
Posts: 2359
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Bravo Hapi! You took the words right out of my mouth.

But can I have my dentures back?
Pundit
Registered: 06-18-06
Posts: 576
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I don't know about Hillary or Obama. I'd like to see a black or a female or a gay in office. Don't care either way for Hillary, and if bobby thinks Obama is anti-gay, and a fundamentalist remember, people do change, how about RuPaul for president, Hell I'd vote for Miss Understood, How about Hattie? Sometimes it's so hard to tell when to vote for a third party candidate, It's like I always say: The third party of choice for me is the Drunken Idiots party. (cos everyone like to act like a drunken idiot whether Republican or Democrat!)
Pundit
Picture of Lily of the Valley
Location: New York, New York
Registered: 07-10-01
Posts: 929
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Obama is not anti-gay. I don't know how this rumor got started, but it is ridiculous. He's not a fundamentalist either. Honestly, over the past few days I have been more and more impressed with him. I am leaning heavily towards supporting him.
Sage
Picture of bobby
Location: Problemstown
Registered: 03-18-01
Posts: 2359
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There is a difference between being anti gay and being a Christian who believes in the letter of the Biblical law that gay is a sin. I saw an interview with Obama in which he clearly stated that gays are sinners . If he believes that, I don't wish to use my vote for him. But I do think he's cute.
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Picture of Robroth
Location: NYC
Registered: 03-18-01
Posts: 904
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I'm reading Obama's book, The Audacity of Hope. Im barely into it but already he has stated so much of the obvious and Im becoming a fan. He is not anti-gay, as far as I can see. He supports gay unions but not gay marriage, which is fine with me. What will happen (and is already happening with the PM of Australia) is that they are going to pounce on his "lack of experience in foreign relations" and that is what's so funny considering our current leader. I also give him all the credit he deserves for not voting for the war. That alone will take him far in a campaign. It will be interesting to see how far the other side will go with him. Remember the Swift Vote , or whatever that group called itself against Kerry? Lets see what they come up with for Obama.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Robroth,
JC
Location: Manhattan
Registered: 10-25-06
Posts: 4
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I'm surprised no one on this board has mentioned the fact that Obama is a SMOKER. His campaign has been very good about diverting "big-media" attention from this fact, but little by little it's been leaking...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070205smoker,1,1203687.story

It may sound silly, but his being a smoker is a massive vulnerability that leaves him open to smears. You thought the Swiftboaters were ruthless? A group of anti-tobacco widows could take Obama down so fast it'd make your head spin.

Come '08, NYC nightlife will have to face the most important choice it's ever faced on Election Day: SMOKER'S RIGHTS? or GAY MARRIAGE?

Hehe...
Sage
Picture of bobby
Location: Problemstown
Registered: 03-18-01
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I just got in from a 6 hr drive from manhattan and I listened to Obama's audio book of The Audacity of Hope. I change my mind. He is a sincere and conscious human being. Most likely the most consious politician or for that matter humans I have had the pleasure of hearing speak. I am sold. My vote will go to Barack Obama and if you have any sense at all you will too. Lily please accept my sincere apologies regarding Obama, I had him confused with that other senator from Tennessee. If he and we are fortunate enough for Barack to win the world will be a better place.
Pundit
Picture of Lily of the Valley
Location: New York, New York
Registered: 07-10-01
Posts: 929
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Oh yeah, Harrold Ford? I think that's who you mean Bobby from Tennesssee? He is awful. I was getting confused. I knew Obama was Christian but from what I know, he goes to a very liberal church that has programs on Trans sexual rights. I peraonally feel that religion is insanity and I wish we could get beyond having to dignify it at all in political discourse. (Would we tolorate a politician who said he believed in Zeus?, That makes about as much sense as speaking of the Biblical God) That said, if they have to be Christians, I make a huge distinction between jack asses like Ford who take that psychotic book The Bible literally and Obama, who seems to take some of the more benign parts of that bizzarre text and use it to inform a world view that avocates social justice.

I'm glad you cleared that up Bobbby. lol Smile
Pundit
Registered: 06-18-06
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I don't care, either Hillary or Obama would do it for me, although my aunt and uncle from NC like John Edwards. How about Hillary and Obama on the same ticket?
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Picture of Luxury Lex
Location: Manhattan
Registered: 07-08-01
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Here's an article that really moved me with a combination of repulsion and grudging respect. From the beginning it's been clear that Hillary will run a much smarter campaign than Gore or Kerry did, starting with her clever web announcement. Now comes word that she will not apologize for her 2002 war vote and refuses to call it a mistake, even if it costs her votes.

I'm really torn by this. As a voter and war critic I'm completely DISGUSTED. The lives of 3,000+ troops are more important than her political aspirations. But from a communications standpoint I respect the decision strategically and understand it. If she were to repent her vote at this point I'd only call it campaign bullshit anyway.

quote:
February 18, 2007
Clinton Gives War Critics New Answer on ’02 Vote
By PATRICK HEALY
The New York Times
One of the most important decisions that Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton made about her bid for the presidency came late last year when she ended a debate in her camp over whether she should repudiate her 2002 vote authorizing military action in Iraq.

Several advisers, friends and donors said in interviews that they had urged her to call her vote a mistake in order to appease antiwar Democrats, who play a critical role in the nominating process. Yet Mrs. Clinton herself, backed by another faction, never wanted to apologize — even if she viewed the war as a mistake — arguing that an apology would be a gimmick.

In the end, she settled on language that was similar to Senator John Kerry’s when he was the Democratic nominee in 2004: that if she had known in 2002 what she knows now about Iraqi weaponry, she would never have voted for the Senate resolution authorizing force.

Yet antiwar anger has festered, and yesterday morning Mrs. Clinton rolled out a new response to those demanding contrition: She said she was willing to lose support from voters rather than make an apology she did not believe in.

“If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or has said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from,” Mrs. Clinton told an audience in Dover, N.H., in a veiled reference to two rivals for the nomination, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina.

Her decision not to apologize is regarded so seriously within her campaign that some advisers believe it will be remembered as a turning point in the race: either ultimately galvanizing voters against her (if she loses the nomination), or highlighting her resolve and her willingness to buck Democratic conventional wisdom (if she wins).

At the same time, the level of Democratic anger has surprised some of her allies and advisers, and her campaign is worried about how long it will last and how much damage it might cause her.

“Some of her many advisers think she should’ve uttered the three magic words — ‘I was wrong’ — but she believes it’s self-evident that the Senate Iraq resolution was based on false intelligence and never should’ve come to a vote,” said Richard C. Holbrooke, the former United Nations ambassador and an adviser to Mrs. Clinton on foreign policy.

Navigating the antiwar anger, and toughing it out for 11 months until the primaries, is now perhaps Mrs. Clinton’s biggest political challenge. Indeed, in many ways at this stage, Iraq has overtaken her and other candidates’ campaigns, as was evident yesterday as she rearranged her schedule to appear briefly in New Hampshire before returning to the Senate for a debate on Mr. Bush’s war strategy.

The campaign began a push yesterday to deal with its Iraq challenge. Besides her remarks in New Hampshire, Mrs. Clinton submitted a bill in the Senate to block sending more troops to Iraq, though she would not cut off financing. In a new video on her Web site, she called for starting to redeploy troops within 90 days — or else, she threatened, Congress should revoke authorization for the war.

“She is in a box now on her Iraq vote, but she doesn’t want to be in a different, even worse box — the vacillating, flip-flopping Democratic candidate that went to defeat in 2000 and ‘04,” said one adviser to Mrs. Clinton. “She wants to maintain a firmness, and I think a lot of people around her hope she maintains a firmness. That’s what people will want in 2008.”

Indeed, Mrs. Clinton believes that reversing course on her vote would invite the charge of flip-flopping that damaged Mr. Kerry or provoke the kind of accusations of political expediency that hung over Al Gore in 2000 and her and her husband, President Bill Clinton, in the 1990s, several advisers said. She has argued to associates in private discussions that Mr. Gore and Mr. Kerry lost, in part, because they could not convince enough Americans that they were resolute on national security, the associates said.

Mrs. Clinton’s image as a strong leader, in turn, is critical to her hopes of becoming the nation’s first female president. According to one adviser, her internal polling indicates that a high proportion of Democrats see her as strong and tough, both assets particularly valuable to a female candidate who is seeking to become commander in chief. Apologizing might hurt that image, this adviser said.

Mrs. Clinton’s belief in executive power and authority is another factor weighing against an apology, advisers said. As a candidate, Mrs. Clinton likes to think and formulate ideas as if she were president — her “responsibility gene,” she has called it. In that vein, she believes that a president usually deserves the benefit of the doubt from Congress on matters of executive authority.

Yet some Democrats are surprised that the Clinton campaign, which is widely regarded as a ferocious political operation, has not lanced this issue. After all, they said, a majority of Democrats tell pollsters they are against the war, and many Americans want a firm deadline to leave Iraq. Mrs. Clinton has called for capping the troop level, but has opposed a deadline.

“For the life of me I don’t understand why she can’t say, ‘I made a mistake, I was misled, the country was misled, the intelligence was manipulated,’ ” said Robert M. Shrum, a senior adviser to Mr. Kerry in 2004. “I think there’s this tremendous desire in her campaign not to get into a position where you’re identified with traditional Democratic views. But this is now a party that is strongly antiwar, and is desperate for change on big issues like Iraq and health care.”

Yet Mrs. Clinton’s refusal to apologize yesterday in Dover drew support from some voters, and she also won strong applause for saying her priority now is to end the war.

Mrs. Clinton’s advisers have been split for some time about whether she would be better off if she apologized for the vote. Mark Penn, her chief strategist, who was also Mr. Clinton’s pollster, carries considerable influence within the campaign, and he agrees with her that she should keep the “mistake” onus on Mr. Bush and turn her attention to finding “the right end” to the war, as she says.

Foreign policy advisers say they have made similar arguments: look to the future, not the past, and stand by a vote that was based on military intelligence that was widely accepted at the time.

The campaign faction that was more comfortable with an apology included advisers with war-room instincts who wanted to deal proactively with the attacks that would come. Yet they were torn, too. They argued that she should talk about the future, yet also deal decisively with her 2002 vote — either by saying it was wrong, or acknowledging that others saw it as wrong, or making a speech on Iraq.

The internal campaign debate concluded in December when Mrs. Clinton decided not to apologize or give a speech. Instead, she went on the “Today” show and, in a little-noticed remark, simply said she would not vote for the Senate Iraq resolution again.

By comparison, to the annoyance of Clinton advisers, Mr. Edwards has proved able to short-circuit questions about his own Senate vote for military action in 2002 by repeatedly calling it a mistake. He took a hard line against Iraq in 2002, then veered sharply in 2005 when he said he was wrong on the vote, and he has not suffered much politically.

A leading Republican candidate, Senator John McCain of Arizona, has defended the current war plan with language that could appeal to primary voters but perhaps hurt him in a general election. Mrs. Clinton is running, in part, a general-election strategy — taking positions on Iraq that might appeal to independents and some Republicans.

Yet her motivation not to apologize goes deeper than that, advisers said.

Her approach to leadership and national security was forged during her eight years in the White House: She believes in executive authority and Congressional deference, her advisers say, and is careful about suggesting that Congress can overrule a commander in chief.

“She thinks she will be president and will have to negotiate on the nation’s behalf with world leaders,” said one Clinton adviser. “She thinks we’re likely to still be in this mess in 2009, and coming onto the campaign trail and groveling and saying at every opportunity that you made a mistake doesn’t actually help you solve the problem.”

Ariel Sabar contributed reporting from Dover, N.H.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Luxury Lex,
Pundit
Registered: 06-18-06
Posts: 576
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Can anyone say Obama in 2008? I'm kind of tired of flip-flopping Dems.
Board Member
Picture of mr.joe
Location: New York, NY
Registered: 06-20-02
Posts: 1205
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I must say that Hillary's Hillcast video on her website is an extremely smart move. I just watched it. She addresses the nation in exactly the way all presidents have done since the dawn of radio and television (just not from the Oval Office). If she subliminally gets the nation accustomed to her addressing the issues and engaging voters and non-voters with this medium, she'll have immediate rebuttal to not only all of the others in the campaign (Rudiani) but also to every move Bush makes until the day he's out of office. She's already acting like a president. It's brilliant and she's really changing the way campaigns will be run from now on.

Barack's site features baracktv, which covers announcements and speeches; they do give me a clear picture of who he is and what he stands for. He's also smart and has A LOT of great potential; I like him, and hope he can be as pragmatic as he is idealistic. He does need to think ahead, though. The public is going to want immediate access to his views and responses to issues as they arise on the campaign trail. Unfortunately, they don't read. They watch TV and surf the internet, and they'll want access to him on their own time (or their employers' time). Hillary has anticipated this.
Sage
Picture of Darla Diamond
Location: New York, NY
Registered: 08-20-01
Posts: 1185
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How about a drag queen for President?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrE6FMpai8
Sage
Picture of Darla Diamond
Location: New York, NY
Registered: 08-20-01
Posts: 1185
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"There has been some resistance, but since the start of this year a sizable cadre of social conservatives have declared either their willingness to consider supporting the mayor, or their intention not to write him off. Since Giuliani emerged as a possible candidate, people have known he would have to deal with the base of his party, but everyone thought this would involve a supplicant bending of the knee and begging leave of the Republican voters he had dismayed. No one imagined that so much of that base would come looking for him, and then make it their business to hand him a strategy. But that is what they have done."

http://www.theweeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Article...000/013/370rvrau.asp
Sage
Picture of Darla Diamond
Location: New York, NY
Registered: 08-20-01
Posts: 1185
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Obamamania Explained:

He's Oprah Winfrey.

"Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love"
Board Member
Picture of Luxury Lex
Location: Manhattan
Registered: 07-08-01
Posts: 2289
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A seasonal fling, Darla. In all probability Obama probably won't last. Lots of seasoning but not enough meat for most voters. Not that he could possibly be any worse than the president we have now, natch.

McCain scares me most of all. While Guiliani is merely a garden variety Moussilini (and the bain of art museums everywhere), McCain always has that look in his eyes like he might have a psychotic meltdown at any second. One must wonder what all those years of being locked up in a P.O.W. camp did to his sanity.

In the end it probably will come down to Hillary vs. the drag queen. They are the only ones "man enough" to do the job.
Sage
Picture of Darla Diamond
Location: New York, NY
Registered: 08-20-01
Posts: 1185
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Yes Lex, I think that's how it's going to be as well.
Sage
Picture of Darla Diamond
Location: New York, NY
Registered: 08-20-01
Posts: 1185
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“If we know anything about the Clintons it is this: They are incapable of taking the blame for any action—personal, business, or political. Period. It is, has always has been, and will always be, someone else’s fault.” —Rich Galen ++ “Nobody will out-mud the Clintons. You can’t beat them tactically... They’re too relentless, they’re too well-organized... If they think [Barack Obama] is a real threat, they’ll just grind him up.” —Newt Gingrich
Sage
Picture of Darla Diamond
Location: New York, NY
Registered: 08-20-01
Posts: 1185
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“John McCain announced for president on David Letterman’s show Wednesday. However, his formal announcement isn’t until April. These days if you want to run for president you have to clear it with the comedians before you run it by the public.” —Argus Hamilton

“C’mon, it was a joke. I would never insult gays by suggesting that they are like John Edwards. That would be mean.” —Ann Coulter, responding to the CPAC kerfuffle
Sage
Picture of Darla Diamond
Location: New York, NY
Registered: 08-20-01
Posts: 1185
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Do you have your TEAM RUDY card?
Darla Diamond does!!!
Join Rudy!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Darla Diamond,
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