What do you feel are the biggest stereotypes or misconceptions about transgendered girls?

Your title answered your own question, in a general way, but that is the most general misconception. Anyway, anyone who would see people in such a simplistic way would divide the world into "freaks" and "normal", so ignorant they would be of even their own uniqueness, at least on a biochemical level. Trying to disabuse such morons of such desperately held notions of identity is a daunting task indeed!

I don't know, do you have to be a transgendered girl to know the answer? Maybe you are not stereotyped (yet).I will say that they are either "gay or straight".
lucilled

Rose,

DQ is simply too limiting a moniker to cover the transgendered experience. Also, it makes it seem like you could be a "boy" one day, and "girl" the next. While some queens put up with that label - I aint one of 'em.

Jade

Hi Jade,

I started to write about this topic and then got busy with so many other things that I never finished it. I posted this topic in hopes of articulating why this label(DQ) vexes so many transgendered girls and to do it without denegrading drag performers? I was never really satisfied with what I came up and just couldn't express it. Am I making any sense?

PS-Are you the Jade I know and love who's in a band and sings?

Rose - yes, I am she! I've been so underground I barely recognize myself. In regards to the topic --I think a lot of self-identified DQs don't embrace the transgendered experience for what it is. I have a big problem with queens going all "chain wallet" and pretending they are this other person (i.e. a "man") "out of drag". It grosses me out. I actually find it downright scary and freaky when queens start playing like they're "guys". I think if you're transgendered, you can't have it both ways. I definately can't . I just have to see it as being a little more, or a little less fabulous depending on the outfit. Everybody's got a survival strategy and, as you know, we live in a strict gendered society. BUT It's easy to fall back in the closet - especially if you pass either way.

I know what you mean, Jade about some boys and their out-of-drag personas, but I tend not to take such a harsh view of it all. As RuPaul said, everybody is born naked and the rest is all drag. Undoubtedly, yes, some of the boys get all chain-walleted out of some closeted survival technique. Others may do it simply to increase their chances of getting laid. But at the end of the day it's just a different look, another image, another painted picture to put out For Sale in the big marketplace of life.

And in any case, let's give those boys applause just for being "self-identified DQs" AT ALL. Many people never even get that far out of fear or self-loathing.

Lex

There is a subtle line between "chain wallet" as an authentic expression of one's truth Vs. retreating into some kind of phony butch act (for whatever reason). I think the latter seems easier, because our culture supports the repetition of that behavior. But I can't believe there's a queen alive who finds that kind of playacting very satisfying, even if it appears to bring short term benefits. I dont like it when other people do it. I dont like it when I find myself doing it -- I think it takes more guts not to pretend.

I feel so jaded when you accuse me of not giving these queens their credit. If I seem to lack appreciation, it's just a reflection of how tough I am on myself.

Rose

I never told you how great it is to be a part of these rooms and to see you posting so many thought-provoking questions. These are the issues of our time! Who knew you were even literate, much less a literary svengali? You were just working as a waitress in a cocktail bar when I met you!

thank you
Jade

ps Can I get a free drink now?

That sounds like a "human league" song to me
kittty

Kitty--remember Hattie and I did that song for one of Michael T's Wed. parties (the name illudes me.)

I really hate judging people by what uniform they wear to work as though it's all about status and bank accounts, or even a sign of intelligence. After all a cocktail waitress watches people getting stupid all the time. I know I may have played the "dumb waitress" at times but girl, I be livin' it and learning every second. But thanks Jade, for the kind words and the next one's on me, girl.

Now about this resentment between DQs and Tranzies. I know it exists and maybe that's why I posted this topic. It gets rather complicated and I'm not going to try to figure it all out right now, or by myself.

In the end though gender expression is really an individual thing and it's kind of pointless, unless of course you're being mistreated, to resent someone else's complexities, in my humble opinion. Believe me I'd be the first one to throw a stone if I really thought it was appropriate.

Also and prehaps more importantly we're all in the minority and don't even have our civil and human rights protected citywide, statewide or federally. I might suggest that to activate any changes in legislation that would protect "us" (all gender variants) we're going to need a serious headcount and that we might consider coming together towards that end. I've noticed a serious lack of participation when this community is called upon to fight for their own rights!

Having said all that I still would like to see articulated in writing, why all these factions in in our community resent each other. I think it needs to be aired!

[This message was edited by Rose Royalle on 08-23-01 at 01:35 AM.]

I agree whole heartedly. But for us tri-gendered born male/found fem/re-born butch male drag queens, it sometimes gets a little confusung. I agree with what Rupaul said but I think it comes down to what gets you wet. And fem attire can do that for me just as easily as leather and boots.

Rose

that cocktail line was a ref. to your memorable Human League performance that night w/ Hattie-- I meant nothing by it.

hmm - with regards to "resenting someone elses complexities", I just have to call it as I see it. I just find honesty a bit hotter than pretending.

Well we all know you're always wet, Bobby! Flinging that huge dick of yours around this stinking town like a garden hose! And to think the courts gave you custody of Ginger!

Also as a general comment, my posts are never intended as accusations, judgements or dismissals of anyone's views. They are simply an attempt to encourage healthy debate, and Rose's questions always seem to do just that.

Lex

That having been said, I do know of one very famous NYC drag queen who perpetually runs around proclaiming, "I'm a top! I'm a top!" and adding with contempt "I'm not some queen, I get the boys to spread" and I must admit I find it extremely annoying, bordering on offensive and maybe even a little pathetic. When out of drag this same person definately "playacts" as this hyper-masculine persona with wife-beater tank tops, chain wallets and a goatee. But on the other hand, when he's in drag he "playacts" at being a woman (even slightly changing the pitch and tone of his voice) with high heels, gowns, long hair, etc. - - so what's the difference?

I know for myself it's sometimes confusing to know the difference between honesty/"realness" and playacting.

Good question, Rose. I think one reason a lot of people don't like to be considered drag queens is that we don't want to be the cruise director for the entire rest of the universe. Sometimes it feels like drag includes a great big sign that says ``ASK ME WHERE THE PARTY IS!''

Another reason is not everybody's gay, at least not all the time. And not everybody's trying to either ``pass'' or make some colossal balloon-boobs parody comment about gender. And not everybody's committed to switching genders, either. I don't feel fake in or out of a dress, even though I read differently in each mode. If I don't send out a queer vibe on line at the bank, it's because, ya know, nothing about getting cash makes feel particularly gendered either way.

So I guess there's a third point on this map: Non-drag-queens who are also not girls 24/7. And who don't feel like any part of their life is a fake.

Or maybe it's just me and I should be in the Smithsonian . . .

MI

Lex - Im so relieved you know what Im talking about.

Its hard work not to become a casualty of the 2 gender system. Even fierce queens are not immune!

For example, I worked high girl drag for a long time before I came to New York -- it was wonderful and liberating, then, after a time, it morphed into awful and suffocating. I became a living doll (I looked fabulous), a piece of art that no longer felt nor acted very human (surprise, surprise). While some aspire to this state of being, for a crunchy triple Taurean it was just wrong. I literally fell off the roof of my apartment and realized I had rendered myself as ineffective as a stepford wife (shit, this is better than therapy). So I left it all behind -- I think Im the only drag queen who came to New york NOT to be a drag queen (except maybe for Betty Pearl!).

Anyway, that was then - but I do think I need to get out more.


Regarding my posts, I hope my sense of humor is not lost in the words - I respect all gender performers (if not always the actual performance!) - its just I have my own way of showing it.


Jade

In a world of resolutely uncreative intelligence, for the purpose of being pragmatic(eg:mundane), I'm a great booster for the clown, the glam, and everything else that Jessie Helms doesn't like.
The Mother family on the other hand is resolutely creative and I find it extraordinary.
Vis a vis the drag, cross-dressing, transgender and transexual, I think a lot of societies of gender rules are unfair and inappropriate, starting with male/female. It's all about the individual person.

And speaking of Jesse Helms ... thank the universe that BEAST is on her way out of office - - at last! What a reprehensible TOAD.

As always, Flawless Sabrina sprinkles her fairy dust of wisdom over us all. Here, here!

Your last post reconfirms my connection with you.
I must confess, all the times you talked about Penney Arcade, when we met, I thought you were talking about the Penney you live with. Sorry for the confusion....