I would love to hear what others think and feel (literally and figuratively) about hormones. Years ago, while making me a frock, the very beautiful Lola (from Senegal) commented to me in her lilting French accent (before I started on them and really had no interest either) that

quote:

---

without the premarin, there is no magic

---

.

Now I totally understand, and it seems this subject is interweaved through other posts, so...

Isn't that made from HORSE urine?

premarin is horse urine. I have been on the mones for almost three long years, with out them I wouldnt have been able to achieve my 40c's and my life would be so different. Yes they make you bitchy and some some hungry, but now I have body, my skin is like silk(and if you dont believ me touch me!) Some of my receding hair line has grown back. Hormones completely changed my life. When I started, I was taking premarin, and bounced from that to estrodiol, to others, but mostly premarin, then swtitched to shots, of Delestrogen, I am still on that but its double the concentrate now, which is double the bitchiness! But without them, and even if I do cut them down I would have to keep on taking them for maintanence, I beleive

I don't get the bitchiness because I am on a low dosage and I alternate three days on, three days off. When I was doing the estrogen patch continuously, my titties got a bit too big for my liking, especially to go to work. My present regimen works for me. However, what does cycle is my sex drive- by the end of the three days off, I am raring to go, and when I put the patch on, I am like a neutered kitty, just feed me and pet me- that's it.

It is the magic that makes the skin smooth, softens everything, and my hair too grew back more than with propecia, and with both, it is a pretty good combo.

I started as an experiment 4+ years ago (after being adamant for several years that I wasn't interested), and I am still taking them, so they agree with me.

to be on a good regimen that works for you, mine doesnt always so every few months or so I slowly work my way off the mones, fo about a month or so than slowly start again. I want my boobs to be bigger(believe it or not) But in time these too shall pass, or drop!

Does anyone (nurse R.) know of the long term estrogen risks for breast cancer? What about mamography? It seems to me (uninformed but interested) that there might be an elevated risk for developing breast cancer in people who use synthetic/real estrogen.

Granted, there are procardiac benefits to estrogen as well as other benefits, but...

Any info?

Sorry if I am a buzz kill but I lost a mother and a close aunt to cancer.

T

Ah, I did my research on this topic, and there doesn't seem to be much published on the health issues of transgendered in general (there is some literature on AIDS in this population but nothing on cancer and such). We know that long-term exposure with the estrogen/progesterone combo increases breast cancer risk for genetic women, but estrogen alone does not. Interesting, right? So it may be the progesterone (which is what causes breast cell proliferation anyway, which again makes sense) in that combo.

There is a risk of blood clots, especially in smokers, so I always take the patch off when I fly.

The greater problem is the lack of interest, along with little political clout, thus very little research dollars are directed to the healthcare issues of transgendered.

To answer your question, I don't know if there is an increased risk, but my thought would be that yes it would be higher than that of a male in the general population (though 203,500 women are expected to be diagnosed this year in comparison to 1500 men who are expected to be diagnosed with breast cancer).

I hate to even speak it...but I somehow think that the ultimate irony for me- the cancer nurse who works with breast cancer patients- would be that I would get breast cancer (knock wood three times). At least I know who I would want to be my doctors, god forbid...

Ok, we need something a little uplifting after that post. Other thoughts about hormones- those who don't take them? those who do? and so on...

I don't know anything about the side effects or risks but when those 'mones kick in... girls just radiate. It's amazing.

I thought you looked rather electric when I last saw you Daddy and your usually dark beard growth seems to have deminished...Hmmmm. Horsepiss?

I've spent a little time doing some looking into this issue. I absolutely agree with Randella that not enough has been done to look at gay, lesbian and transgender health issues. There is a group who are trying to, viz the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association:

http://www.glma.org/news/index.html

I am going to try to contact them and see if they have ever looked into
the issue of long term effects of increased/exogenous estrogen use in men.

The following is a little of what I was able to glean from the current
medical literature.



Generalizations relating to men's health overall:
- The risk of breast cancer in men increases with age.
- Incidence rates of breast cancer in men have remained stable over
time,
(i.e., the past 25 years or so).
- In men, an increase in risk of breast cancer has been associated with
testicular pathology and dysfunction, and a decrease in risk has been
related
to high fertility, a history of prostate cancer, and exogenous androgens.
-

A history of breast cancer in a first-degree relative is associated
with
about a doubling of the risk of breast cancer in both men and women

- In rats, it has been shown that estrogens, alone or in combination
with
androgens, can induce aberrant growth and/or malignancy of the prostate
gland.
- Also in the laboratory setting in rats, estrogen alone or combined
with
progesterone can induce breast tumors.


The following is an abstract from a journal called "Prostate"

Prostate 1989;14(4):389-95
Estrogen therapy and liver function--metabolic effects of oral and
parenteral
administration.

von Schoultz B, Carlstrom K, Collste L, Eriksson A, Henriksson P,
Pousette A,
Stege R.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Umea University Hospital,
Sweden.

Oral estrogen therapy for prostatic cancer is clinically effective but
also
accompanied by severe cardiovascular side effects. Hypertension, venous
thromboembolism, and other cardiovascular disorders are associated with
alterations in liver metabolism. The impact of exogenous estrogens on
the
liver is dependent on the route of administration and the type and dose
of
estrogen. Oral administration of synthetic estrogens has profound
effects on
liver-derived plasma proteins, coagulation factors, lipoproteins, and
triglycerides, whereas parenteral administration of native estradiol
has very
little influence on these aspects of liver function.
------
I found this abstract quite suprising. In women, estrogen is known to
be
cardioprotective; when women pass menopause, their risk of heart
attacks and
related problems significantly increases, eventually becoming equal to
those
risks in men.
One thing that this abstract leads me to think is that if a man is
taking high
doses of estrogen it would be important to have liver studies done from
time
to time, to make sure his liver function is alright.

I'm afraid that I have to get back to work, but I'll try to spend some
more
time on this topic in the very near future.

- Di

Dear Randy and Helen, Do you guys have Dr that you are working with? I think about hormons off and on and I would be more like Randella and just do somtheing kinda mild, but I am trying to get some info on what the effects are on the body if you stop. Does everthing go bake to normal??

Well, Lisa I can give you the name of my doctor, just call me for the #. Years ago, I thought about it "off and on" for months as I watched my friends on them, and I went from not wanting them to an experiment to see how I would do, and well, here I am still on them (the magic & glow can be addicting). He sees several of my friends as well. He is a hematolgist who specializes in internal medicine/infectious disease, who inherited his tranny population of patients from his predecessor, but he finds us fascinating. Moreover, he enjoys talking about our issues- gender, dating, our lifestyle, etc. I think he finds us a contrast from his AIDS patients, which are mostly gay (in the traditional sense)...

He does things properly- complete physical and blood work up, and you have to get a note from a therapist regarding your decision to start hormones (if you don't have one, he can give you the name). And then he monitors your bloods as you go through the process, and he is very knowledgeable as well on all the issues.

I started out with the lowest dose possible, and have stayed there which is fine with me. I am exquisitely sensitive to the estrogen, so it didn't take much for me, and I took to it like water. In retrospect, no surprise really.

As for the effects being long-lasting...it depends on how long you have been on them. I notice that when I take the patch off for a period of time especially beyond my 3days on 3days off, my sex drive comes roaring back- from neutered kitty to horny toad- and I have 4+ years now on them. However, at higher doses and for longer periods, some things don't reverse. I know of one girl who doesn't even take them anymore, but she still has NO sex drive (though after 15 years of high dose estrogen from Rotten Ralph that is no surprise either). Another take is that years ago I was making out with a guy at the Vault (Sweetie's Shangri-La parties), and I felt his chest and he clearly had breasts. He then explained he had been on hormones for years living as a woman, but then decided he wanted to be a man again (and he was a man clearly but he said he still loved the trannies) but he said that the breast tissue decreased when he stopped but he was left with some residual tissue, which was apparent to me during my "examination" in the dark recesses of the attic at the top of the long-ago-gone Vault. Interesting, really... but that would be a good question for the doc, and should be factored into your decision-making.

I have a Dr. as well I go to Callen Lorde, onme of the reasons why I slowly take myself off them, is because I have severe depression, and I honestly cant take them all the time. B8ut thats just me. I do go often to get my blood checked and liver enzymes as well

Thanks for the info!! Somedays I want to run to the Dr and say guve me all you can, but then when I think about going to see my brother in West Palm Beach I don't know how he would react to my new little breast when we are swimming at the beach. But Thanks for this topic it's nice just to talk about it.

worry about that too but I had boobs to strt with (from being a plump princess) so it wasnt so bad, but when they really started growing, I was told by friends look you need to need to wear a bra I knew it was time...

but I'm concerned if all the sexy girls start taking hormones, then they won't want to have sex with us genetic female tranny chasers.....what's a girl to do??????????????????

have you talked to LAD in her topic- GG Trannychasers II? She is a genetic female tranny chaser as well...

Me toooooooo......

That is so scary.