It has been suggested that our community needs to unite in order to fight against descrimination and other serious issues

(recent post)

Yet the community is so diverse and apparently segregated that it does not seem possible. Is there a common ground that could facilitate unity? If so what would would it take to turn thoughts/words into action?

Could the 'Bill of Gender Rights' serve as a starting point?

Bill of Gender Rights

It is time for the transgendered community to take a stand, a strong stand, against all gender-based discrimination simply because some people are different and simply because some people do not fit into current social norms of gender roles.

It is time the gender-based community articulate this stand in words that clearly define exactly what our gender rights are.

It is time to stand alongside other minority rights movements to declare these gender rights as follows:

The Right To Assume A Gender Role
Every human being has within themselves an idea of who they are and what they are capable of achieving. That identity and capability shall not be limited by a person's physical or genetic sex, nor by what any society may deem as "masculine" or "feminine" behavior. It is fundamental, then, that each individual has the right to assume gender roles congruent with one's self-perceived identity and capabilities, regardless of physical sex, genetic sex, or sex role.

Therefore, no person shall be denied their Human and/or Civil Rights on the basis that their gender role or perceived gender role is not congruent with their genetic sex, physical sex, or sex role.

The Right To Freely Express Gender Roles
Given that each individual has the right to assume gender roles, it then follows that each individual has the right to freely express gender roles in any manner that does not infringe on the freedom of another individual.

Therefore, no person shall be denied their Human and/or Civil Rights on the basis that a private or public expression of a gender role or perceived gender role is not congruent with their physical sex, genetic sex, or sex role.

The Right To Make One's Body Congruent With Gender Role
Given that each individual has the right to assume gender roles, it then follows that each individual has the right to change their body or alter its physiology so it better fits a gender role. These changes may be cosmetically, chemically or surgically induced, provided these changes are supervised by an appropriate licensed professional and the individual accepts sole responsibility for their actions in this regard.

Therefore, no person shall be denied their Human and/or Civil Rights on the basis that they changed or wish to change their body, cosmetically, chemically, surgically or any combination of these, to better fit a gender role.

The Right To Sexual Expression Congruent With Gender Role
Given that each individual has the right to assume gender roles, it then follows that each individual has the right to express their sexuality within a gender role.

Therefore, no person shall be denied their Human and/or Civil Rights on the basis of sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation. Further, no individual shall be denied their Human and/or Civil Rights for expressing a gender role through private sexual acts between consenting adults in any manner that does not infringe on the freedom of another individual.

- JoAnn Roberts Ph.D., December, 1990


From The National Transgender Advocacy Coalition Web Site

[This message was edited by April on 01-14-04 at 01:24 AM.]

I have to say that when I read this post I had to cringe. I thought that Show Producer had bitten off more than he could chew. My first thought was that he was dismissing this issue with us not be as involved as we should be. I was for sure that he was going to be fried by the defending forces in this forum. But reading the post a second time I realized how true it was, and realized that there isn’t much to defend. The truth may hurt, but it is the truth. There are many sects with in the TG community, and let’s face it not everyone who dresses like a women has Gender Dysphoria. Not that I fault anyone for living their life the way they chose, but I know some issues like these mean different things to different people. Way to often, we 24 hour Transgenders feel that part time transvestites and cross dressers should help us fight the fight.
Of course it means more to us, we don’t dress in our men’s clothes and pursue work, relationships and common everyday respect, and then throw on our sexiest skirt for the party at 10:00pm. We live it all day long and we should unite as us, and get past it. We need to except that others do it for the party and why get involved with the serious issues. Not that it wouldn’t be nice to have others at our side, but we shouldn’t need them. I have to admit that I haven’t been quite as involved as I should, but I think it’s time for me to find resources to change these issues.
Chanel Chandlar was a TG friend of mine from Fresno, who was brutally murdered in 1998 by 2 men. Police have been less than enthusiastic about charging the men even though the DNA matched the blood on the body. I flew out to California to go attend a rally organized by her sister. Out of 50 people who attended the rally, 2 of us were Transgender. Sad! Half way between LA and San Fran and 2 of us were there.
Show Producer knows first hand. In that post, he had a link to my pre-post. Our friend Daisy was beaten in a drag hang-out in our very own city in 2000, in front of a crowd of people, including TG’s. She was hospitalized, and the cops haven’t arrested the suspects. A good kid, with a big heart and no one’s outraged. Who’s next? Maybe me maybe you, and there will be second rate justice for us. Why? Because it doesn’t matter until it affects us personally.
The club Twilo, removed 2 T-Girls from there line up and the shit hit the fan . What a rally. The outcry was overwhelming. Can’t screw with the club scene after all, can you.
To Chanel and Daisy: never let this validate who you are in the human chain, and I’m personally sorry. Your injustice is as important.
And girls keep up the good fight!

As a non 24-hour girl, I feel more responsible to help out my fellow sisters who are.

Why? Because you're absolutely right when you say that it's easier for those of us who interact with the world - mostly - as boys, and then throw on a pretty frock to party the night away.

My lady and I are actually trying to do our part to get the "str8" trannies into the fold. It's an uphill struggle but it's worth the effort.



My Husband Betty

'in matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity is the vital thing.'
-oscar wilde

hi Tina - on cringing - I almost didn't post it since it is sooo serious. However I was curious to hear how others feel about the possibility. You make a great point on how many don't really suffer from GID. So a good case can be made for groups that really don't have common goals to remain seperate. I'm very sorry to hear about your friend Chanel. It must make your furious to know that the evidence exists yet the authorities don't follow through.

Betty - I applaud what you and Helen are doing. I think the book has great potential to reach a large mass of people and that should really help the cause. I would guess that the number of crossdressers far exceeds the transexual population and that they represent a significant cross-section of the 'normal' American demographic. Hence CDs are likely to get the attention of legislators more so then transexuals.

I appreciate the feedback - Thanks!

Peace

In a word, NO

it aint us whats da problem

Gender Disphoria is what the rest of the world has about ME.

unitin queens is like juggling cats.
difficult and dangerous

western civilization is generally sKKKared ft ft ftt meowrrrr, when they encounter somethin out of the ordinary. And lets face it; We mostly live on the other side of ordinary.

Hey Brigit - Thanks for the reply.

So what if the so-called ordinary people are scared? Aside from getting into dangerous situations don't you think we should be visible (visible but not necessarily shocking).

I also wonder; why you think uniting the community would be dangerous?

Cheers!

As a friend of transgendered community,I have started to support people individually by trying to help them present themselves in performance situations.The opportunity to "play " a role on stage is a fanatasic opportunity to explore gender in a public venue/forum that rewards exuberance and commitment to self expressionwith respect and applause.It's also fun.I'm new to transgender
politcal issues ( discrimination I get as a gay man) ,so my hope is to support teh community by offering a platform for celebration and pride in diversity and individualism.woof...That was good to get out.I'd love any guidance I can get.
matt mohr

It seems as if you’ve decided to take a pro-active step, Matthew. If you help just a single person or encourage a few, you done more than most people have. I as well have recently seen a side of society that is less than honorable. I’ve realized that even advocating or fighting for someone in the TG world is a big no-no. Your credibility becomes questionable, and that sucks. Doors start to shut and lines are severed and you’re left with very few options. But if we ( non TGer’s) don’t value our beliefs, stand up for what’s right and attempt to embrace transgenders as fellow human beings, it would make us part of the problem, rather than the solution.

I commend you for what you doing and feel that it won’t go unnoticed. If you’re willing to join the fight, other will follow your lead.

April, I don’t understand the danger in uniting, either. Seems to me like the only option. Maybe Brigit doesn’t understand that the “rest of the world” doesn’t want the TG community to unite or gain self respect. If that happens, how in the world would they be able to enjoy assholes like Ricki, Maury, and Jerry? So let Brigit keep her cat persona, and her $250 Trash TV episode check. You will find support in people like and unlike yourself. Don’t get discouraged when you’re putting up your Malcolm X style fight, if others like you are still tap dancing for whitey

This post has been deleted for many violations of our Terms of Service. To refresh your memory, here is the part of it you need to re-read

quote:

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You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing ... threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

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These boards are for DISCUSSION, not ugly threats. I would love to see the discussion resume, so take your all-caps rage somewhere else.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: katrina,

OK, great. That and 25 cents, may get you a cup of coffee. The last thing I would ever do is credit or express sorrow to a 7 footer with a stolen, second hand Gibson. I can see that after all these years of still living at your parents house has made you a real rebel. Rock on junior joke.
this message was edited show producer

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Show Producer,

oh KAY computer cunt up till now its been fun and games but now *****************************************.

I'm a 40 nyear old navy vet who left home before 18 and have turned my self into a ROCK LEGEND - ********************************************* check out clubmakeup.net to see just who the fuck your messin with

producer of un-named show

people taste better than racoon

BB

Moderators Note: Please see my comments above regarding Terms of service

This message has been edited. Last edited by: katrina,

AND FURTHER MORE WHAT ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT
I HATE THE MEDIA
I HATE STRAIGHT SOCIETY
TRANSGENDERED PEOPLE ARE THE LAST CIVIL RIGHT HURDLE TO OVERCOME FOR THE BACKWARDS-ASS OVERGROWN THIRD WORLD NATION

YOU TICK OFF THE WRONG QUEEN - GIVE A DRINK OR A JOINT AND ALL IS FORGIVEN.
I'VE PAID MY DUES - FOR A LONGGGGG TIME.
MOST OF MY FRIEND IN SF ARE DEAD BUT I'M STILL HERE

**************************

A VERY ENRAGED BRIGIT BRAT - STOMPIN TOWARD YOU

HAVE A NICE DAY

This message has been edited. Last edited by: katrina,

Hate this Hate that, at 40, you’ve failed to learn a damn thing. If you’ve gazed through the posts that I have written, you’ll find a lot about me. One being, the 2 new pilots that I’m producing, just to mention the “unnamed show.” I refuse to toot my own horn and start shitting my resume, it’s unflattering. Two, you’d find that this one member of straight society has embraced the transgender society, and risked his extensive career in doing so, because I do believe it’s the right thing to do. Rather than exploit others, I attempt to show others like myself, that it’s something we can get past. That is feeling the need to degrade people that walk a different path. It’s not an ego, It’s just walking through life without blinders on, you should try it. Thirdly, you’ll also find that yes, I do like to mix it up as many do in here. And yes, it does get serious at times, but most of the time it’s all tough and cheek. But one thing that you may realize is, that I’ve never physically threatened anyone, nor would I. Furthermore, when there has been a time for me to give props to someone, it’s been done. Not that they need it coming from me, but it’s nice to have it come from anyone. So there I am in a nut shell.

THIS MESSAGE WAS EDITED BY SHOW PRODUCER

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Show Producer,

With this forum's long-time moderator busy on other projects, the discussion in here got more than a bit out of hand. I have deleted material that exceeds our community norm and could present liability for the boards themselves, or for our host.

We certainly welcome all viewpoints here, but the extremely threatening nature of the deleted material could not be tolerated.

I do urge all members to use the caution sign icon (which alerts the next moderator who logs on to review the post) at the top right of every post rather than engaging the poster directly. Show Producer, you will probably want to edit your posts made in response.

And please, get back to the actual TOPIC, and apologies for the neglect - I WILL be watching in future.

Katrina, I did go back and remove some of what I said . Although it wasn't threatening, my opinion may have drove another person over the line.

My goodness, I guess I missed much of the inflammatory mishmash that ensued while absorbed in my pursuit of higher education.

Hard to comment on what I can no longer read, but if it violated the tenets that Chi Chi and Johnny set forth within this entire community of the Motherboards, then far better that such comments were 86'ed.

So we go back to the original question and discussion- can the gender dysphoric unite? I think for many it is an individual struggle & process, and an all consuming one to make life changes that swirl around gender issues. With that in mind, for many it is hard to unite as a large collective to battle society's raised eyebrows; they are too busy with their own transititory issues, which takes a lot of energy and commitment. My personal take on this question lies in two recent but silent spookings I made on the subway each on a separate occasion...both trannies working a 24/7 real girl look; I spooked them, but would anybody else? Probably not. And one with her big ole latin daddy boyfriend. So I commend these two individuals for living their lives as they see themselves, as girls. The unique irony in this is that if a MTF fully transitions all the way, usually she wants to blend into society (I'm talking boring straight society here) and just be a girl, not a maverick for transgender rights, thus the successful slide out of sight. It is special breed that can do that AND then become an advocate fighting for tranny rights, liberties, etc. Can it be done? There are examples sprinkled about, and those more active in this slice of the advocacy world would know better who these individuals are. I think a more interesting question is can our society adapt and become more inclusive of all things inbetween? Ten years ago gay marriage seemed an elusive thing- an unthinkable thing by many gay rights advocates, but not so much now. Are tranny rights around the corner?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Night Nurse,

Randella, the higher education is very comsuming, but the ending result will be golden, I’m sure. I wish April would jump back in this discussion because her point is valid and important to her and many others, but I think she was scared away. I enjoy your wit R, and hope that this subject will stimulate some great ideas with others.

Can the gender dysphoric unite? They may have to; I do not see many groups coming to their defense.
Very few people go with their heart on what the right thing is to do. It seems like common sense, that anyone with the least bit of compassion or human integrity would be for the social advancement of gay or transgender people. Really, how is equal treatment for anyone denying freedoms for others? It’s not. Most people are not afraid of the gay society or the fact that certain members of our society alter their gender for personal reasons. What they are afraid of is, being labeled “gay”. This label is emotionally deadly to many straight men and women, and present fears that either family breaking or the end of a comfy career. Unfortunately, most straight people, who have the resource’s to make a difference, tend to shy away from these issues, and act like there’s nothing wrong. It’s all about self survival.
These are not just benign phobias either. Soon after I mentioned my intent to get involved with a transgender rights story, I found myself standing in a world of tumbleweeds, alone. The very men and women who have financially backed projects of mine for over a decade were no longer behind me. They feared my worth after such a project would be forever suffering. (I may have sealed my fate with this admission, but fuck it, I’m self supported now.) But I still feel it’s the right thing to do.
Labeling, isn’t just done by straight people, is it now? I found that out for myself too and in the weirdest places. If you’re distant and unsociable you’re a part of the “asshole straight society”, but if you befriend or show compassion, YOU’RE GAY! There is no winning.
So, if I, a straight dude, could give support to the TG community in hopes for a better tomorrow, shouldn’t the TG be able to do the same? Whether wild, crazy partier or boring straight life liver, all you may have is one another.

showy dear, interesting comments...but on a tangent did you see last week's NYMagazine with the article...

Love in Attica

this is Oz but in reality, and a storyline they never really expanded or touched on. the author was clued into this romance after writing a piece on Michael Alig, who was on the same cellblock as these two...

what it does do is illustrate how hard it is for girls to transition, regardless of environment or locale, and what guys have to deal with when they get involved with girls like us.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Night Nurse,

It's so funny that you mentioned this article, I just read it last week and wondered if anyone else in hear read it. I definatly see your point, and wonder what it would take to change this situation. Being in an everyday "traditional relationship" is confusing enough, but it seems that the TG issue has more bolts than they do nuts. I do have a TG friend who feels second class to her boyfriend, but feels that anything is better than nothing at all. I don't give my opinion or advise her, but I think it sucks. Trying night and day to compensate herself is sad to see. She is truely a sweetheart with plenty to offer, and I think her boyfriend knows that too. The only person who seems to be missing her value is her. It's sad, but all to common. Wouldn't you agree?

quote "labeled “gay”. This label is emotionally deadly to many straight men"
Including yourself, it seems?