It's so funny to see how everyone can sit here and bad mouth someone that they were once friends with. No matter what has happened, what gives anyone the right to judge someone for good or bad? I just can't believe how many people go out of there way to say something or make a board or topic to express such negativity. Even if the people knew or didn't know him, does that give you a right to judge someone else's life or actions? No, so when you are judge-because what goes around comes around-don't get upset. Think about all the judging you did and ask yourself if you were in the right. No, you were not. Don't dwell on the past or negativity.

U know that's so true...let's bygones be bygones... u kill someone one day, lets just wipe the slate clean the next... u chop someone up so be it.... u lied about it to the police and let someones family be tortured about the whereabouts of their son... well que sera. I agree he threw great parties and we all had a hoot at them so lets just join hands and be jolly and just not judge him for murder, mutulations, lies and deceit and lack of remorse.

This is the problem with ... I don't even have a name, let's call it "Lazy Political Correctness".

Intelligent people try to spread an idea, like, lets say, the fact that race does not make a person superior. So the idea spreads that we should not judge a person by his or her race, because it doesn't determine their personality or integrity.


Then we expand on that: ethnicity, gender, sexual orentation, these things do not make a person better or worse, smarter or dumber, more or less honest or competant.

But then the catch phrases start, like "Don't judge people." And lazy people who follow catch phrases without thinking of the logic behind them don't know how to apply that.

The idea is not to judge people based upon aspects that do not shape a person. People should be judged not by their race, ethnicity, orientation, or gender, but by their opinions and their actions. It's wrong to say "I don't like black people" It's okay to say "I hate Adolf Hitler." Or "Ann Coulter is a cunt!"

One should use judgement, good judgement, everyday. Use good judgement when it comes to making friends, doing business, and crossing the street. And, Mizz. O. I think you should consider use better judgement when it comes to taking up causes.

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Missy U...You trully have a great brain in that colorful head of yours. You should take up teaching. The children could learn a lot from you my dear.

Thanks... sorry for my perhaps harsh bitch but I just am drained by this blind support for him. Well put Miss U.

It seems as though everyone here is like a piranha ready to attack. People are entitled to their own opinions, hence the point of a message board. How can anyone put anyone down for speaking their mind? I said it was not right to judge, this is what I think. Everyone here has their own opinion. Just because someone comes on to voice their mind, doesn't mean you have to go around bashing them. I could go around bashing everyone here if I wanted, yet I am not that type. If I wanted I could judge Anna, she's no angel. Who is she to judge? Who is anyone to judge? You can't change anyone's mind on how they think. No use in approaching anything in such a rude way. You people have a lot of hate bottled inside, whether it is on this topic or in life in general. You don't go around speaking so negatively on something that happened 10 yrs. ago. It didn't happen to you, so why are you so worried about it? Everyone here is dwelling on the past. It's just funny to see that just as I am writing a message on the past, you are as well. I just feel as though I have to post because you people are wrong.

Apologies if I was harsh. Again, I am just sadly drained and disappointed when people draw the line of what is acceptable behavior and what is not morally acceptable (I.E. killing people). It DOES matter no matter how long ago it is - just as much as the holocaust DOES still matter today (and I'm not Jewish and I wasn't there) - It matters what happens around the world to people globally. It DOES take a village. And it's important to have your own standards and draw your own line. It’s not about being negative; it’s about standing up for who you are and where u personally has to draw the line. I can’t say that I can be passive or dismissive about a terrible crime such as murder – even if my own son was the criminal. People I believe have to be responsible for their actions. He could well have been a visionary in clubs or someone you might want to idolize. But admiration aside – you have to realize that he killed someone and that is something that no matter how u look at it is WRONG and NEGATIVE and no way an action you can be dismissive of. It does matter what he does even though his actions don’t directly affect me. Perhaps this poem might help u understand why am passionate about this
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

RE-read Miss Understoods words and read them again and think about them

No-one's stopping you, MizOp, from becoming a big Michael Alig groupie (along with some others, no doubt) and joining the legions of killer groupies, eager to send him fruitcakes and all your love and such. Why don't you put your energies into that, and report back to us on how gratifying it is to make friends with such as he?

In the meantime, let us tell you that it DID happen to us. You will not convince anyone here, many of whom were Limelighters and knew the guy and partied with him, including our beloved Daddy, that he is anymore cool.... And when we saw him in the Party Monster Documentary (not the film) CONFESSING to murder and gigglng, that was it.
It was beyond.

It's like people who think the Mafia are cool, and just like the TV show the Sopranos... glamourous. All you need is one REAL pass with the REAL guys, and you know there is a HUGE black line you'd cross to be their pal.

I'm considering you are possibly under 18 years of age.
Regards.

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In our species, MizOpinionated, there is a strict proscription against the taking of another's life.
It's older than Hammurabi, older than Cain and Abel, older than Osiris and Seth even. Perhaps it is because life is viewed as an inexplicable gift from the unknown without that we view this act as the most heinous crime there is. In other words, if life is a divine gift, how dare any one of us take it away from another of our kind?
In fact we now view murder as such a serious crime that there is no statute of limitations on bringing the act's perpetrator to justice.

There is also the question of reponsiblity. We believe that each person is responsible for his or her actions, no matter if drugs, booze or whatever cloud the senses.

Perhaps that is why we react so strongly. We are only being human.

Miz, you are sounding like the Catholic Church. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is "bashing" you.

This is a great example of, what I like to call hijacked politacal correctness as opposed to lazy political correctness. It's when people or groups misuse terms in defense of themselves. Generally this involves the right wing adopting the terms of the left.

The term gay bashing is used to describe people who go out and beat up people simply because they are gay. It may also be applied to people who attempt to pass laws which deny gay people their cival rights.

The term catholic bashing is generally applied to people who don't agree with the Church's politcal positions. If one expresses an opinion supporting the separation of church and state, (s)he is likely to be accused of Catholic bashing. It's a way of trying to find a political rationalization to use against people who don't agree with you.

Again, it's a catch phrase. "Bashing" is generally considered bad, so, even though I don't understand the meaning of the word, I'll use it and everyone will rush to my side.

Listen Miz, I'm not bashing you. I don't know you. But, while you are making such a strong point about your right to have an opinion, you seem to be so freaked out that we have opinions too. Disagreement is far from bashing. No one has tried to censor your comments. When you express an opinion in a public forum you will hear disagreemeents. That's how we learn from eachother.

Opinions are fine, and voicing your opinions are great too, however, making the way some of you go about doing it seems as though you are bashing or attacking. I am no groupie, never have been to anyone, nor will I be. I am over 18, in fact I am over 21, and I don't mean by a month. Yes, and hatches, you can preach the bible, but the bible states that you shouldn't judge people, they will be judged by God. There is so much more to this, and so much more to the hatred.

MizOpionated:
I can be the judge. I was there. I knew Angel, I knew Micheal, I knew Robert. These were real people with real lives who were loved by many, had families, boyfriends, best friends. It was a tragedy caused by the out of control drug use and greed of a spoiled rotten pedofile who only cared about himself ( Michael) who bragged about his evil deed and then tryed to get away with it. But in this shameless self centered generation that we live in I am sure he will get out of jail and attempt to cash in on his 15 minutes of fame only to find out that the only people who care about him are mindless imbeciles. The fame that came from making a movie about all of this has somehow made it seem glamourous and forgivable. Well it is neither, not then or now even 10 years later. And might I add that if you find us all so negative and disagreeable here on the Motherboards may I suggest you spend some time reading "Beams to Bobby" where the positive and loving support of this community of individuals helped to save a life rather than take one.

Bobby, MissU, MizO, Hatches and Anna, you all once again make me happy that as you debate, you reminde me that this is what true democracy is. There will never be a person in the world who has the same opinion as the person next to them. It's easy to judge and hate certain people and things, true. Think about this though: Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme assassinated (or tried to) Gerald Ford, and she was under the influence of Charlie Manson. It's a fucked up world and sometimes that creates fucked up people that's for sure. Who can say what's right or wrong? And who in the whole world can say that they don't judge people for whatever they are or whoever they are? As I wasn't there Bobby, so in the end I can't really judge, now can I? Still it's a fascinating topic one that will be debated by anyone and everyone.

Of course u can judge this is FACT - Why is everyone trying to be so 'cool' here so dismissive of a real life murder... jeez.

I don't know MizO, I wasn't preaching the bible, but was describing a moral thread that runs through humanity predating the Biblical story of Cain & Abel.
The Code of Hammurabi was set down by the first ruler of the Babylonian empire ca. 1780 BCE.
The Egyptian tale of Osiris and his murder and dismemberment by Seth is even older-- probably ca. 2500 BCE. There is also the even older Sumerian Murder Of Dumuzi tale, from which all murder/resurrection stories may have been born.

So, it's not just a Judeo-Christian thing. And I am not a follower of either of those particular schools of belief, but...

In the biblical tale, Cain screams out, "Am I my brother's keeper?"

And the unspoken answer is, of course, "Yes!"

Your bit from the bible BTW about "judging" concerns something else indeed... and has nothing to do with murder, or judges in courtrooms.

That bit in Matthew: "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged..." seems to be about hypocrisy.

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Murder is a no-no, even if one is a friend of the murder. But do I really have aright to say it was wrong, since I wasn't there to witness the Rise and Fall of Michael Alig and th Club Kids (if you really want to make it sound somewhat like a Bowie album...)

One thing to remember is that Michael Alig is NOT Macaulley Calkin.

quote:

Originally posted by MizOpinionated:
It seems as though everyone here is like a piranha ready to attack.

Muddah Mary, you call this discussion board judging? U should try locking horns with The Donald. That is judging.

I just love the irony of the person who keeps chiming up that everyone else is judging them. That in itself, is a total judgement on all those people . . . you are judgement fixated. I bet you eat a BALANCED diet. Tee hee.

quote:

Originally posted by MizOpinionated:
Even if the people knew or didn't know him, does that give you a right to judge someone else's life or actions?

PS Fine - if you say so. But da judge in his murder trial DID JUDGE HIM. He was judged by society and civilization and a court of law to be a murderer. And those of us who did know him and Angel and everyone else who's lives were negatively impacted DO get to state our opinions, whether or not U judge those opinions to be invalid. The FACT is he is a MURDERER - not a "kewl dude." Sheeesh. Is this guy related to Trump or something?

But as the saying goes "U B the judge." And lordie knows, U WILL B, U WILL B.

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